I had some time on my hands and after a reader's quick comment last week about Paul McCartney & Wings' "Back To The Egg" being underrated, something I agree with wholeheartedly, I started thinking of a few more records that I thought were either underrated or overrated. I compiled the list. It took two minutes, if that. I posted it on both Instagram and Threads, with the title, "Idle Hands Are The Devil's Playthings," assuming my choices would ruffle a few feathers. The posts were shit on within seconds.
You gotta love social media rats.
You gotta love social media rats.
One comment was, "Arthur is overrated? By who, the people who love it?"
I had to remind the guy the meaning of the word "overrated" and also point out that these choices weren't gospel. They are just how I feel. You know, a somewhat educated opinion. Not the final word.
Another comment was a little more innocuous.
"Agree, but I would substitute Shot Of Love with Street Legal."
"Agree, but I would substitute Shot Of Love with Street Legal."
Why would someone substitute something someone else thinks is underrated? I never understood that level of thinking. Just say, "I like Street Legal more than Shot Of Love" when you make your list.
"MADNESS!"
Well, that got to the point.
Finally, after just 4 minutes of air time, one Charles McBarron, someone I do not know from Adam, said this:
"PERFECT LIST! ALL WRONG!"
"PERFECT LIST! ALL WRONG!"
I replied, "Well if anyone knows me and my taste in music it's you, Charles McBarron! By the way, who the fuck are you?"
And that was that. A little fun exercise, thrown against the wall for some conversation, instead becomes a trash fest, something that would never happen with you fine readers of Burning Wood.
And so...here is my list.
I'd be happy to explain all of my choices if pressed. One in particular, seemed to really get under some skin.
Have at it and please add your own...without altering mine, if you can control yourselves.
OVERRATED/UNDERRATED:
David Bowie- Blackstar/Black Tie White Noise
Bob Dylan- Time Out Of Mind/Shot of Love
Led Zeppelin- II/Presence
Bruce Springsteen- Born In The USA/Magic
Rolling Stones- Aftermath/Now
Paul McCartney- Band On The Run/Back To The Egg
Elvis Costello- Armed Forces/Blood & Chocolate
The Beatles- The White Album/Beatles For Sale
Prince- Purple Rain/Dirty Mind
Roxy Music- First Album/Manifesto
The Who- Tommy/The Who By Numbers
Peter Gabriel- So/Us
Frank Zappa/Mothers- Overnight Sensation/One Size Fits All
Rush- Moving Pictures/Hemispheres
Nirvana/
Frank Zappa/Mothers- Overnight Sensation/One Size Fits All
Rush- Moving Pictures/Hemispheres
Nirvana/
Deep Purple- Machine Head/Fireball
Queen- A Night At The Opera/A Day At The Races
Neil Young- Zuma/On The Beach
The Kinks- Arthur/Face To Face
69 comments:
How can a Beatles record be overrated/underrated?
Charles McBarron
Haha.
Shame on me for not being fully versed in Bruce's 21st century discography. I kind of lump Working on a Dream and Magic as one and the same and was going to call you out for hating Outlaw Pete (which I kinda like) on an album you say is under rated. Of course, that song is not on Magic.
Always like Bowie's Black Tie/White Noise. At the time it was a good pivot from Tin Machine.
And yes, Nirvana - completely over rated.
Sorry if my reply does not live up to the high standards of Threads & IG
I'm flummoxed by your Kinks choices, too. I don't think i've ever heard anyone rate "Arthur" even though it has some of my favorite songs, but critics have always pushed Face to Face and Village Green as, yes, "underrated masterpieces."
I tried to think of a list, but i realized the stuff i know best is probably too parochial. definitely not qualified to weigh in on popular bands with long discographies, though i remember thinking in college that Something/Anything (a classic!) was overrated and The Ballad of Todd Rundgren was underrated (if that means criminally neglected at the time).
I don't believe I have ever heard anyone refer to "Village Green" as anything but a masterpiece. That is not underrated. Your choices of Todd's "S/A?" as overrated and "Ballad Of" as underrated are exactly what I mean. I love both! "Overrated" doesn't mean bad. "Arthur" is not BAD! It's excellent, but I find it has a lot more speed bumps and therefore to my ears, isn't as good as everyone says it is.
Girls in Their Summer Clothes is my favourite Springsteen song.
Nirvana -- [blank] ha! That made me laugh. The guy posting as Charles McBarron -- funny! In my long overdue appreciation of the Kinks, I merely liked Arthur but really loved Lola and especially Muswell Hillbillies. Very underrated, that! :) Village Green is a masterpiece!!! :) Can it be a masterpiece and overrated? Sure. The same then is true for the White Album. on Bruce, I would substitute Wrecking Ball for Magic. To each his own.
Boy, do I disagree with a lot of those. Starting with Springsteen. Seriously -- "Born to Run" overrated?
Born In The USA, Steve.
U2: The Joshua Tree/Rattle and Hum.
Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon/Animals
@Simels,
Born In The USA, not Born To Run, which is deserving of evey accolade it's received.
Oh hell yeah! DSOM/Wish You Were Here, too.
The Bruce one raises an interesting conundrum. I don't think that it's rated that highly among the fans. If most fans were doing the rankling, I suspect it'd be mid-table, not his best, not his worst. But, clearly a lot of people outside the fans loved it. For under-rated Bruce, I'd go Tunnel Of Love, closely followed by Wrecking Ball.
REM - Out Of Time/Collapse Into Now
Tom Waits - Mule Variations/Bone Machine
Costello - My Aim Is True/Momufuku
Warren Zevon - Excitable Boy/The Wind
:-) Click Bait!!! :-) !!!
This is kind of fun. In no particular order:
Warren Zevon- Excitable Boy/Sentimental Hygiene
REM - Murmur/Life's Rich Pageant
Bruce Springsteen- The Rising/Magic
Sal did you ever get the joke. Beatles For Sale is their fourth album Beatles 4 Sale!
I regret the error.😎
Totally agree with your Led Zep II/Presence.
As a pimply teenager, II was my go-to, but not so much anymore. Achilles/For Your Life is my favorite 1-2 punch to open any of their albums.
Any latter day Rush album/Caress Of Steel
As that pimply face teenager, I never would have thought that I would like Caress so much, but in the last five years or so, it has become probably my fave Rush album.
Randy
One of my (many) unpopular opinions is that people don't really know why they like or don't like music. "Sgt Pepper" must be the greatest Beatles record because a bunch of people said so over the years. "Presence" stinks well because, "The last good Zep record was 1969." Plus, the older people get, the less patience (and time, I guess) they have for reassessing music. They formed an opinion when they were 20 and they are sticking to it at 70.
For Pink Floyd, I'd much rather say The Wall (waaaaaaay overrated)/Wish You Were Here. I think DSOM is terrific
Willie Nelson -- Red-Headed Stranger/Teatro
John Lennon -- Imagine/Double Fantasy
Simon & Garfunkel -- Bridge Over Troubled Waters/Greatest Hits
Ella Fitzgerald -- The Cole Porter Songbook/The Intimate Ella
Marvin Gaye -- Midnight Love/Here My Dear (and That's The Way Love Is)
Monkees -- Head/Good Times!
Joni Mitchell -- Blue/Blue
Very interesting.....agree with 90% of the underrated choices. But I really love at least half of the overrated ones too, so I guess that means .....I just really like everything that my favorite artists release, with a few exceptions.
To reiterate, "overrated" does not mean "dislike."
Is this post over-rated or under-rated? It's definitely a hit!
I can't believe I'm the first to request you post your reasons for your choices, but understand that it's the music geek in me that's curious, not because I agree/disagree with you. In fact, I either know so little about, or are not a fan of, some of your listed artists, that I have no opinion. And of many you have that I do think are great, I confess to not knowing where they stand in the canon, so I'd be remiss in calling them either/or on the rate scale.
C in California
PS I'm glad you're posting as much reggae as you are these days. Either you're finding it's not as hated as you thought, or you're more comfortable not letting the perceived hate override your desire to share. Either way, I'm glad.
I disagree with several that have been covered already. But One Size Fits All is the single best Zappa record of his entire output, so that cannot be overrated. (OK, maybe Burnt Weenie Sandwich or Freak Out! is better to some folks).
"But One Size Fits All is the single best Zappa record of his entire output, so that cannot be overrated."
It's not. It's underrated and yes, his best!
I agree with almost all of your choices (Except the artists I don't know, Zappa for one, that I don't have an opinion on!)
I know I'm not playing the game, but I think Sylvain Sylvain's solo output is very underrated. Terence Trent D'arby's "Neither Fish nor Flesh" is underrated. The beginning tracks don't sound like the last album, so on release even the label was like "Warn the customers." I feel that Darden Smith is completely underrated as an artist. And that Michael Jackson is overrated and that Quincey Jones' influence on Michael's career is underrated.
Sorry I missed the meaning of the /
And yes, Overnight Sensation is way overrated, but we sure loved it as 15 year old boys
For C In California, and anyone who might be interested:
David Bowie- Blackstar/Black Tie White Noise
I think the events surrounding "Blackstar" and the shock of Bowie's death, made this record seem better than it actually is. I even loved it for a while. But I am over it.
Almost the same situation with "Black Tie, White Noise," only it was the label that died soon after its release and there was NO promotion at all. It's all but forgotten by casual Bowie fans, but it's got it a little of everything Bowie does well and still holds up...for me.
Bob Dylan- Time Out Of Mind/Shot of Love
I think that whole Dylan trilogy--TOOM, Love/Theft. Modern Times is overrated. There's one masterpiece hiding across all three. Shot Of Love gets the shaft because of the God shit, but it's catchy as hell. Really commercial, hooky, and solid.
Led Zeppelin- II/Presence
Led Zep is a classic. I love it. But I love six LZ records more. And as Randy said, "Achilles Last Stand" and "For Your Love" is a hard 1-2 punch to beat.
Bruce Springsteen- Born In The USA/Magic
BITU's hit singles, five or six, are some of my least favorite Bruce songs. His first two records from 1973 and 74 sound less dated than BITU. "Magic" on the other has just as many hit singles, though none were released as singles except "Girls In Their Summer Clothes." It's radio friendly Bruce and it works!!
Rolling Stones- Aftermath/Now
"Now" is my favorite early Stones record and it's never mentioned with the same regard as "12x5," or "Aftermath," or "Between The Buttons" and I think it's more consistent than all of them.
Paul McCartney- Band On The Run/Back To The Egg
"BOTR" exploded, deservingly so. It's a solid record. I love it. But I don't really love "Mrs. Vandebilt," or "1985" or "Mamunia." "Back To The Egg" is one surprise after another at a time when Macca didn' stand a chance in the shadow of punk.
Elvis Costello- Armed Forces/Blood & Chocolate
Again, I love "Armed Forces" but I don't think it's as great as people think it is. At least it hasn't aged as well...for me...as his first two and his next two. "King Of America" and "Blood & Chocolate" need to be mentioned together. They remain my two favorite EC records. Lyrically powerful, completely different from each other musically. It's Elvis growing up before growing up too much like his genre-hopping records of the last 20 years, which I also dig.
The Beatles- The White Album/Beatles For Sale
Macca's line, "It's the fucking White Album" only goes so far for me. I know others think it's a masterpiece, but I can't call a record a masterpiece when there is more than a side's worth of songs I never want to hear. As for "Beatles For Sale," great originals and great covers. Even "Mr. Moonlight" thanks to John's lead vocal. Its underrated because it's rarely even in people's Beatles' Top 10.
Prince- Purple Rain/Dirty MindI will not deny the impact "Purple Rain" had on the world. It singlehandedly made Prince a superstar. But the title song is clumsy. Sorry. Goofy lyrics, a chorus that goes nowhere, only saved by the guitar solo and "woo hoo hoo hoos." I don't love that song like everyone else does. And as long as I am pissing off a few people, I don't love "Let's Go Crazy" either. It's a really good record with a mediocre movie to go along with it. "Dirty Mind" on the other hand is a filthy, funky, punky statement. Nothing like it. This should be considered his masterpiece.
Roxy Music- First Album/Manifesto
Roxy's debut is my least fave of the classic first five. It's a little too weird at times. "Manifesto" on the other hand, was perfect for 1979. It had the Ferry's new romantic shit right next to the weird shit, which was totally abandoned by "Avalon," another one I think is waaaaaayy overrated.
The Who- Tommy/The Who By Numbers
"Tommy" was groundbreaking, but it is still a bore at times. I made a playlist that edited all of the character stuff and transitions and it plays better. "By Numbers" is arguably their third best after "Who's Next" and "Sell Out." Not sure why it gets dismissed.
Peter Gabriel- So/Us Love them both, but I think "Us" is more interesting.
Frank Zappa/Mothers- Overnight Sensation/One Size Fits All"One Size" never gets mentioned before "Freak Out," or "We're Only In It For The Money," or "Apostrophe" or "Overnight Sensation." And like Cleveland Jeff, I think it's Zappa's very best.
Rush- Moving Pictures/Hemispheres
Side One of "Moving Pictures" had all the hits. This really put them on the map. But Side Two is a mess. "Hemispheres" never lets up. It's a better record.
Nirvana/
Should I start more trouble? Sure why not? Kurt Cobain a genius? Puh-leeze.
Deep Purple- Machine Head/Fireball
Queen- A Night At The Opera/A Day At The Races
This is easy. I love them both. I like Day At The Races more. It just didn't have "Bohemian Rhapsody," so people think it's not better. It is.
Neil Young- Zuma/On The Beach
"Zuma" can be a slog. "On The Beach" has a lot of soul.
The Kinks- Arthur/Face To Face
And the one that seems to have flummoxed the most readers, "Arthur" is a great record. No doubt. But I don't love Ray's character voices. I don't love "Victoria," though I know it was a hit. It just has a few speed bumps that make it just a bit more difficult for me. "Face To Face," on certain days, is my single favorite Kinks record. Other days, it's "Village Green" Some days it's "Something Else." But I prefer "Muswell," and "Kinda Kinks" to "Arthur."
Sorry for all my typos. I had to bang this out.
U2 - Unforgettable Fire/Zooropa
Overrated/underrated
Nirvana everything/
Neil Young everything after 1975/On The Beach
U2 everything/
Pointer Sisters Energy/ the Pointer Sisters ( debut)
Their debut is still a great listen
Velvet Underground White Light white Heat/ the Velvet Underground ( third)
Joe Jackson Night and Day/ Big World
Rolling Stones Out of Our Heads/The Rolling Stones Now!
Deep Purple Burn/Now What?
Mott the Hoople All the Young Dudes/The Hoople
Rolling Stones Between the Buttons/Their Satanic Majesties Request
Led Zeppelin Houses of the Holy/Presence (I love this album too)
Genesis Lamb Lies Down On Broadway/Foxtrot
Jimi Hendrix The Cry of Love /Rainbow Bridge
Yes Fragile/Relayer
Zappa Apostrophe/One Size Fits All
Zappa Over-nite Sensation/You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore Vol. 2
Alice Cooper School's Out/Love It To Death
Spirit Twelve Dreams of Dr. Sardonicus/Spirit
Pink Floyd The Wall/Meddle
VR
Grateful Dead Live Dead/From the Mars Hotel
VR
I'm not generally a fan of Dylan's born again period, but Every Grain of Sand is a truly great song, and for that alone Shot of Love deserves some respect. I completely agree with you about Tommy. Maybe Who By Numbers would get more respect if people didn't hate "Squeeze Box" so much (I don't hate it, for the record). I agree with you about White Album and Beatles for Sale, and I would add that Abbey Road is overrated and Let It Be is underrated - especially "Let It Be . . . Naked" which adds Don't Let Me Down. I know I'll get flamed for calling Abbey Road overrated, but I will die on that hill. George's two songs are great, though.
Marc
Love Magic. The audiophiles bitch about the sound but I think it's a mature work of art. Totally agree about Tommy and Dirty Mind. Disagree about Time Out of Mind and would offer up Empire Burlesque as underrated, as it gets a lot of flak for the 80s production, but there's some good songs on there. I like Shot of Love a lot. Great list and nice post as always, Sal. Lot of trolls on social media.
I assume the masterpiece you refer to from the TOOM/Love and Theft/Modern Times trilogy is Mississippi since you've expressed your love for it in the past. I agree there's a big fall off to Modern Times but I'd also offer up Not Dark Yet and Sugar Baby as near masterpieces at least. I love the way L&T hangs together so I think the first two are properly rated. Surprised no one's taken a poke at Blood On The Tracks.
I wonder how much of our opinions on these records were affected by the hype or airplay they received at the time? The two Dylan records for sure were hyped as late period masterpieces. Rightly so IMO, but I understand the backlash. I'd also add Purple Rain and BITUSA as records that got played to death on AM radio and ruined for me. Huge fan of both Bruce and Prince but I never play those records due to overexposure during my radio loving teenage years.
Love that one. Probably my favorite later Bruce song. Apology if this is duplicate post.
Rolling stones ---Exile on main street / Goats head soup
What I meant was, a masterpiece could be created from the best of those three records:
Love Sick
Standing In The Doorway
Not Dark Yet
Cold Irons Bound
Make You Feel My Love
Mississippi
High Water
Sugar Baby
Workingman's Blues #2
Nettie Moore
Ain't Talkin'
Thank you to all who championed Zappa’s One Size Fits All - it’s been on repeat since last night. Brilliant!
I’m looking forward to listening to the many others shared. Thanks :)
For the Beatles, I'll go with: Abby Road/With The Beatles
The Kinks...I know I'm flying solo here, but Village Green...as wonderful as it is, falls short of its reputation as a purported concept album. A large portion does follow the theme, but in order for it to work one has to buy the after-the-fact justification of Wicked Annabelle, Monica, Phenom Cat as "characters" within the village. All are great songs (well, maybe not too crazy about Monica) but really don't live up to the overall "preservation" concept. So my Kinks over/underrated is: Village Green Preservation Society/Everybody's in Showbiz
For the Who, agree about Tommy, but swap out A Quick One as my underrated favorite.
That’s what I get for reading with my sunglasses on.😎
Great thread!
Loved all of your additional comments - you've earned a little breather.
Randy
Randy Newman: 12 Songs/Bad Love
David Bowie: The Berlin Trilogy/MWSTW, HD, ZS
Big Star/
Kate Bush: Aerial/The Dreaming
Green On Red/Chuck Prophet
The Jam/P Weller solo
Pete Townshend solo/Rough Mix
For consideration:
Paul Simon - Graceland/Hearts and Bones (timeless quality and some great guitar)
Van Halen - 5150/Diver Down (maybe their most fun)
Some great music has been shared. Thank you! :)
David Bowie- Low/Diamond Dogs
John Coltrane- A Love Supreme/Crescent
Santana- Abraxas/ Caravanserai
Yes- Fragile/Going For the One
Grateful Dead- Workingman's Dead/Terrapin Station
Led Zeppelin- IV/III
Herbie Hancock- Head Hunters/Crossings
Let's keep the over/under train a'going. It makes me sad, but...
Tom Petty -- Wildflowers/Greatest Hits (1993) I really want to like Wildflowers and will try again, but it hasn't clicked for me yet (though I love the title track). And I think the Greatest Hits is awesome. I think he's a great singles artist and this proves it.
R.E.M. -- Out Of Time/Life's Rich Pageant (echoing someone earlier)
Frank Sinatra -- Trilogy/She Shot Me Down
Kate Bush -- nope, despite the universal love she's still underrated. full stop
@Michael Giltz.
"Wildflowers" is one of my two very favorite Petty records. And "Trilogy" is overrated? Really?
Listening to a lot of Dead this week, including "Workingman's Dead." It's pretty damn great.
XTC- Black Sea/Mummer
Lou Reed- Street Hassle/Lou Reed
Yes- The Yes Album/Yes
John Coltrane- A Love Supreme/Ole
Jimi Hendrix- Electric Ladyland/Axis:Bold As Love
@Sal - what's the other Petty record?
And Wildflowers is in my top 10 favorites of all time.
"Full Moon Fever."
Sal- I was going to put Ole as underrated. Workingman is great, but I like a bunch of their other studio releases better. But I usually listen to a live show.
Traffic- John Barleycorn/When the Eagle Flies
Rolling Stones- Some Girls/Black and Blue
Marillion- Brave/Anoraknophobia
One More
Steely Dan- Aja/The Royal Scam
Ha, well ignoring The Future I guess I always saw it and the theme from "New York, New York" getting more attention than his last great album, LA Is My Lady. You can substitute the Duets albums if you prefer. Not among the cognoscenti but among the public at large.
I mean She Shot Me Down, not LA is My Lady!
Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers - Southern Accents/Echo (Wildflowers without the hope). :)
Wow! This is still happening? Idle hands indeed.
Re: Workingman's Dead - I think it's better than American Beauty
Here some more over/unders. Speaking of the Dead:
Grateful Dead Anthem of the Sun/Blues For Allah
Tom Petty Damn the Torpedoes/Southern Accents
Roxy Music Siren/Viva! (though it should have been a double)
Roxy Music Avalon/Manifesto
Some ABC’s (till I get sick of it)
Aerosmith Rocks/Get Your Wings (which has no stupid Tyler ballads and the great Train into Wither segue)
Allman Brothers Band Brothers and Sisters / Hittin' the Note
Lou Ann Barton Read My Lips/Forbidden Tones (especially these done live)
The Band Music from Big Pink/Northern Winds Southern Cross
Beatles Help! (US version)/Beatles VI
Be-Bop Deluxe Sunburst Finish/Futurama
Be-Bop Deluxe Modern Music/Axe Victim
Black Crowes By Your Side/Amorica (just for you Sal)
Captain Beefheart Trout Nask Replica/Spotlight Kid
Cheap Trick In Color/Cheap Trick debut
Drive-by Truckers Southern Rock Opera/Live at the 40 Watt (DVD)
Dylan Oh Mercy/World Gone Wrong
Dylan Time Out of Mind-Love & Theft-Modern Times Trilogy/Slow Train Coming/Saved/Shot of Love Trilogy (just to stir up some stuff. Shot of Love is vastly underrated but, by itself, is too common a choice)
Faces - A Nod/First Step
Frampton Frampton/Frampton's Camel
Grand Funk Railroad We're An American Band/Grand Funk (Red Album)
Humble Pie Smokin'/Rock On
JoJo Gunne Jo Jo Gunne (which I dig a lot)/So Where's the Show (A friend of mine, who hated the band, called it "So Where's the Album." The way I hear it, it's their second-best album. I know, it's only Jo Jo Gunne, but I like it. Best warm-up band in their day for mindless teenage feel-good boogie. And they had a sense of humor. I had a huge crush on Jay Ferguson since his Spirit days, but I was jailbait and his old lady was always hanging around. I used to admire his photo inside the gatefold of the S/T debut as if it was a centerfold. He was so gorgeous at that time. Back then, I used the gatefold cover of the debut to clean the seeds out of my pot just so I could obsess on him. Mark Andes was a fox too but he only lasted one album and they replaced him with a dumpy dude.)
Nils Lofgren Nils Lofgren (debut)/Flip
Nils Lofgren Back It Up!/Code of the Road
Nils Lofgren Cry Tough/Valentine
OK, I’m sick of it. Late night. Went to two concerts Jim Lauderdale and Alphonso Johnson then had a little after hours action.. Gotta crasssh
VR
Speaking of Lauderdale:
Jim Lauderdale Headed For the Hills/Country Super Hits, Vol. 1 (not a comp-all new material. 13 great songs in about 38 minutes. This one doesn't get enough respect. Nothing too deep. But it's an instantly likeable listen.
I was a day late to this, but Band On The Run is deservedly not overrated. It's a stone classic, IMO.
(oops, that was me -- wasn't signed in...) I love BOTR
I love BOTR too. But that doesn't mean it's not overrated.
agree 100% don't we have better things to do than this ( like listening to music we like and not worrying and arguing about others tastes and opinions rs
Jeez, RS. Looks like every one is having fun but you! I don't really see anyone arguing. Isn't the point of this place to discuss music and share opinions?
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